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A teacher of the Word of God is never responsible for what students done with what he teaches, his liability is limited to teach what he knows, the best that he knows. All who were in The Way We are responsible for that we learned there, we cannot make responsible to Dr. Wierwille, Martindale or Rivenbark. We are bless to see that many Ex Way, continue moving with God, putting into practice what they have learned, we are saddened also to see others who do nothing, have not broken the past anchors. Bitterness hurts and does more damage to the vessel that contains that to the cause of bitterness. God told us that where two or more gathered in His name there is Him. Is so easy to be a Christian: you met in your house with your husband or wife, your children, share the doctrine of the Apostles, have communion, share the bread and pray together, if you invite a neighbor, you are a Minister of reconciliation and an Ambassador for Christ, you can give good account of your stewardship. When Christ returns, we will ask for account of our Ministry and our Embassy, are you going to say that we were not Ministers or ambassadors because Dr. Wierwille died?, or Martindale or Rivenbark treated us badly do, or not treated us as I expected?, or because I'm tired and old, with grandchildren? You know that these are not the answers. We love you, The Cabrera’s, Venezuela.
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Since this post is still up...I think I will agree with brother Juan. I hope more 14th come on this sie again soon. It is time to wake out of sleep .THe enemy is very active and the hour is URGENT. Where are the warriors. And the prophets. You have a blood covenant to fulfill. Remember it IS A NARROW GATE.
It is funny in a way. Dr. died in 85 and people still can't drag him through the mud enough to satisfy their bitterness. I have no doubt that some of the rumors floating around were true. I heard some of it while he was alive. But that didn't change my commitment to God and my responsibility as a minister of Jesus Christ. I am still working the Word and teaching it with even more passion than I had back then. I had a little walk with God at the ROA 75. I hadn't even had the class. But every question I ever had had been answered by the WOWs I caravanned with on the way there. About the 2nd day of the Rock I found one of the WOWs who rode with me. Jim Perinne. I was overwhelmed and he could tell. So we talked and he asked what was wrong. I said, "Look, I've had every question answered and it all fits and makes sense, but how do I know its true? He pointed out that God can only give the truth. That if He gave revelation for men to write His Word then the Word had to be true. Then, he said, "And truth never contradicts itself"! I said, Well, what about???" He interrupted me and explained that if we see an apparent contradiction that iti is either in our understanding or in the translation! This floored me. The next day, I had a walk and talked with God. I said, "OK God, you've got me. I'll stand on your Word the rest of my life, even if/when I fall, I will get back up and keep walking. (I wanted a way out) But so help me God if I ever see a contradiction that isn't because of the translation or my understanding I'm going to throw the Bible away and do whatever the hell I want. That was 39 years ago. I've wanted to quit plenty of times. Especially after I left the ministry. But I can still put the Word together, I can still prove Jesus Christ was raised from the dead. Jere 20:9 Now greater men than I have forsaken His Word, but I remained. Hope you have too.
I understand you Juan. I know what you are trying to say. Yes, you are right about "moving on" and forgetting the past and not laying the blame on others for the condition of their lives currently, maybe even some 20 or 30 years later. For most people I believe that is the course of action they take over time. They move on and cetain hurts became a distant memory. But I have also learned that for many it takes years and years. For some it may even take a lifetime.
Think of the term spiritual abuse. There is such a thing. It has been documented by therapists and christian counselors. I am sure we have all experienced it at one time or another. I Iam not talking about sexual abuse or physical abuse. Those are in a leage of their own. Spiritual abuse comes in varying degrees and has different effects on people depending on the situation. For some it is a deep wound. For others not so much. It gets complicated.
Speaking for myself only, what I have learned is not to be so judgemtal of some who have not "moved on" and who may appear to be "doing nothing" spiritually. I have found the situaton is sometimes not as simple as it appears. I have found that sometimes there is a lot going on that I do not know about in that persons life. I have found that sometimes a person is doing the work of God quietly and perhaps in a different way than what we may be used to expecting.
Thank you for your wise words of kindness. It's nice to be able to share things. Maybe someone will benefit from both our viewpoints.
I agree with you beloved brother.
The responsibility lies with both sides. Even in the secular world more on the spiritual side: Who teaches God´s Word should be more close to the heart of God, he who hears the teaching must internalize, think, retain, and then put in practice the teaching, God's Word is very clear when he says: reviews all, seal good and discard the bad, We have that capacity given by God.
A good teacher of the Word and even a good teacher in the secular field, when he or she make a mistake, he or she admits and apologizes, that is healthy and correct in the eyes of God, as was John Shroyer for as long as we were with him, as you mention.
Actually my comment was more extensive, but I dont knew how to put it last night in the page until I got on the blog... basically I wanted to refer to the people who even today he blames Dr. Wierwille, or Martindale or anyone else by their lack of belief and inactivity in the Affairs of God. That is not to break the chains or anchors from the past. We have to assume our own responsibilities and Act, is God demand to us.
Thank you for your comments and contributions. A big hug.
Great advice Juan. Thanks for sharing those pearls of wisdom. I am sure your grandchildren love you very much, an lots of other folks too.
There is one point I wanted to share about:
"A teacher of the Word of God is never responsible for what students do with what he teaches. His liability is limited to teach what he knows, the best that he knows."
I agree with you to a degree, Juan, on that point. But I don't think it's always quite that simple.
I think the responsibility or liability leans more heavily on the teacher. Especially If the teacher takes people into his trust in a pastoral / congregant relationship or school teacher / young student relationship or counselor / patient relationship, etc. The student has placed great trust in the teacher because of the deeper nature of that relationship. I think it behooves the teacher to make sure that what they are teaching will not cause harm to the student. And I think it is especially important for the teacher to publicly admit when they taught wrongly or led people astray.
Yes, it should also be the responsibility of the hearer to check things out from many sources including counsel from others outside the situation if they hear something that does not set right with them. Unfortunately, too many times the student or hearer in the above relationships are vulnerable or young or naieve, while the teacher is supposed to be strong and seasoned and one who is trusted by many. Therefore the greater responsibility falls on the teacher, as I see it.
Too many times we see no apology or "owning" of the mistakes or even acknowledgement of wrong teaching or behavior on the part of the teacher or leader, even when the error has bordered on spiritual abuse. I have seen a rare few, one of whom was our mutual friend, now deceased, Rev. John S. That is one of the reasons I respected him so much.
Much love to your family and ministry in Venezuela.