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Since I have been involved in a number of projects and teaching assignments and other activities, I have not been able to respond to any of the comments posted to my initial blog regarding Pentecost as the birthday of the Church. Certainly I have read them and reflected upon the various views expressed. In light of the controversy that my comments generated, I wanted to respond more extensively, and so I’m posting another blog which includes some additional images and a YouTube video at the end.
I must admit that I should qualify and modify my statement to indicate that the Day of Pentecost is in reality “a birthday of the Church, not the birthday of the Church.” “So, Pentecost being the original outpouring and the new birth daily it looks to me like every day is a birthday in the church of the body.” I heartily concur with Michael’s comment.
Just as every year we celebrate another year of life on the date that we were born, but who we have become each year is vastly different from who were on the day of our birth. So is the Church remarkably different than it was on the Day of Pentecost, which as it turned out was another period of progression in its unfolding to become all that God had in mind when He first “conceived” the idea of this glorious masterpiece of creation. Perhaps we could say that the idea of the Church was first birthed when God “thought” of it and implemented His plan to bring it to pass in the fullness of time. Of course, the Church is one aspect of God’s plan for the redemption of humanity after the Fall. As I think about it, this whole idea is “too wonderful for me; it is high; I cannot attain unto it.” Who has known the mind of God, for His ways are not our ways. Romans 11:33-34 puts it this way:
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”
A most enlightening book regarding the Church is Kevin J. Conner’s The Church in the New Testament which reveals that the Church was unfolding throughout the Old Testament. Last year, I coordinated a small group discussion of this remarkable treatise, lasting several weeks. I could by no means do the work justice in this response. Among the many notable distinctions regarding the Church as it unfolds throughout the Bible is that the Church is a reflection of “the pattern and the glory of God.” God has a pattern, a divine design for the local as well as the universal church. When all has been built according to the pattern, the glory of God descends to seal or establish the pattern. From Noah’s ark through the Tabernacle of Moses through the Tabernacle of David and Solomon’s Temple on through the Book of Acts and the New Testament Church of which we are presently members, in whom dwells the spirit of the Living God whereby we recognize that “it is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”
That familiar expression, of course, relates to the riches of the glory of this mystery, which I believe was in evidence before the fullness of God’s intent was revealed to Paul years after his conversion. I, hence, disagree with Karl (respectfully, as well) that the mystery was not known in the Book of Acts. The mystery was foreshadowed and made know in the Acts 13 in Antioch where followers of the Way were first called “Christians,” a derogatory descriptive label that has stuck over centuries of time. What did the citizens of Antioch see in Saul (not yet called Paul), Barnabas, a Cypriot, Simeon called Niger (whom I along with others believe to be Simon of Cyrene, the “brother” who bore Christ’s cross), Lucius of Cyrene (“another brother of another mother”) and Manaen, the foster-brother of Herod the Tetrarch)? What caused those who saw this culturally and ethnically diverse group interacting together to speak of them as “those ‘Christ-in them’ folk?” Jesus had declared earlier, “By this shall all men know that you are my disciples if you have love one to another.” Years ago I did a teaching centered on Acts 13, and I believe I entitled it “The Mystery Movers”, as I made the point that the principles of the Great Mystery were alive and well and demonstrated in Antioch. I may have included this discussion in the New Testament History classes I taught at The Way College of Emporia way back in the day. So you see, Karl, why I respectfully disagree…Hey, that rhymes. Indeed, I have been known to wax poetic, as I pen a poem or two. In fact, I wanted to close my comments with a poem that relates to Church of the 21st Century of which I am a part and so are we all.
A couple of years ago my wife and I visited family and friends, some of whom were former followers of The Way International, in San Francisco and Los Angeles. During our stay in the City by the Bay, we enjoyed a most enlightening experience at the Asian Museum where we saw a special exhibit from the Ming Dynasty. One of the pieces on display was a stationery box which is similar to this one.
Although the final product reveals what the designer had in mind, we do not see how the object looked at the various stages of development. So it is with the Church which is still a work in progress, but I believe that God is putting “the finishing touches on His crowning achievement.” No, technically the Church of the One Body was not born or did not start on the Day of Pentecost, but what transpired there was of great significance in its unfolding. Without a doubt Pentecost was a watershed moment whereby the world was forever changed. This poem “Exquisite Exhibit” conveys in part my thoughts regarding the Church and my part in this amazing masterpiece of God’s creation.
Exquisite Exhibit
Viewing a Ryoshi-bako (stationery box)
Power and Glory: Court Arts of China’s Ming Dynasty
Asian Museum--San Francisco, California
For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew
in Christ Jesus so that we can do the good things
he planned for us long ago
Ephesians 2:10
God's purpose was to show his wisdom in all its rich variety
to all the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms.
They will see this when Jews and Gentiles
are joined together in his church.
Ephesians 3:10
Sublime thoughts never diminish, only increase,
As I marvel at this ancient masterpiece.
The designer sees the end long before he starts
And envisions intricate details of the parts
And fashions a wood box inlaid with jade and gold,
Lacquered vessel for deepest thoughts the mind can hold.
Beyond all that I see, God formed and fashioned me
With precise measure of each scroll and filigree.
Displayed by the skillful hands of the Master craftsman,
Beyond the finest design of any artisan,
The Church, exquisite exhibit now on display,
Treasures from the hand of God take one’s breath away.
With the eyes of our heart now opened, we find
We are the masterpiece Jehovah had in mind.
Lonnell E. Johnson
August 27, 2008
Here is a sweet treat to end on a glorious note of possibility, as we listen to powerful lyrics to “Let the Church Rise” in the video performed by Jonathan Stockstill below:
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Comments
It's been a pleasure to converse with you..
God Bless
Karl
As I read over your lengthy, detailed response to my comments, I thought of a poem by Dudley Randall entitled “Booker T. and W.E.B.” The piece is a poetic dialogue between Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. DuBois, two prominent African American spokesmen in the early part of the 20th Century. These two men were ideologically at variance in their strategies for social and economic progress for African Americans.
I remember the refrain that appears at the end of some of the stanzas of dialogue:
It seems to me, said Booker T.
I don’t agree, said W.E.B.
With the reverse at the end of words spoken by DuBois:
It seems to me, said W.E.B.
I don’t agree, said Booker T.
With regard to our particular dialogue regarding the question of whether the Church was born on the Day of Pentecost or not, I certainly do not intend to rebut your rebuttal of my initial and subsequent comments. You seem quite convinced of your position, and rightfully so, since you certainly have explored the subject extensively and come to your conclusions. In a similar manner, I feel that the points that I made were valid and based on my study of the Scriptures and other sources upon which I based my position, which you described as “conjecture and personal opinion.” It seems to me that the same could be said of your commentary. Isn’t that what a blog is all about? I have published on my Way Corps Web page a “personal chronological log of my thoughts” to which readers can respond and dialogue, just as you did. In reading your previous comments and the last one in particular, you seem to be “like a tree planted by the waters . . . you shall not be moved.” I feel so moved, however, to conclude the discussion with following lines inspired by the Dudley Randall poem mentioned earlier:
In our lengthy responses the point may sometime be lost:
Whether or not the Church was really born on Pentecost.
No matter what I say, Brother K,
You just can’t seem to see it that way.
So it seems to me, that we still disagree, albeit respectfully.
Since I never want to be considered rude,
I, therefore, must graciously conclude
All that has transpired is merely a prelude
To the glorious Church that God intended it to be
Soon and very soon, we shall see. . .
But until then . . . .
It seems to me, that we still disagree, albeit respectfully.
God bless,
Lonnell
Thank you for posting a reply, I appreciate the work you put in, the fact that you read, thought about and cordially responded. I believe that it is good to share what we believe, even if we disagree, honest discussion without the emotional straitjacket of a system of theology is a wonderful thing. I also believe that if you are going to put your thoughts and beliefs out there in a post then it is fair game for discussion, so I make no apologies for saying, I still disagree (respectfully though lol).
I will start by isolating your quote.
“No, technically the Church of the One Body was not born or did not start on the Day of Pentecost, but what transpired there was of great significance in its unfolding.”
To which I agree heartily, but what did transpire there? And how different is the church that began at Pentecost from the church of the body? And why is it important to distinguish? I think it is fair enough to summarise your post into three major points of doctrine. While the rest was enjoyable reading it was conjecture and personal opinion based on these points.
1. The church began sometime way in the past in the mind of God and was building continuously until it became the church of the body.
2. The mystery was revealed around Acts 13 signified by the fact that the riches of the glory of the mystery is “Christ in you” and that they were first called Christians at Antioch which comes from "Christ in".
3. As a result of the revealing of the mystery the church became something remarkably different from what it was before.
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe this sums it up, so in my response summation.
1. I believe this is missing the point and mixing groups of people who are distinct in the scriptures. While I see the necessity of it, in order for you to make your point I think it is an entirely different subject, which if examined would divert the post topic considerably, so I will not spend any more time on it in this post.
2. The mystery was not revealed at Acts 13 or anywhere close to it, this is easy to show from scripture. Also the idea that they were called Christians because they were saying that they had “Christ in” is just silly. They did not speak English in Antioch the Greek word for Christian is Christianos which simply means “follower of Christ”, nothing whatsoever to do with “Christ inside” or “Christ in me”.
3. Agreed, the church to which you and I belong is remarkably different from the church that began at Pentecost, but it began sometime AFTER Acts 28:28. So not just technically, but distinctly and definitely Pentecost is not the birthday of the church to which you and I belong.
Okay now to elaborate on the above points...
We agree that the church of the body came into being with the revelation of the mystery so it seems that it really boils down to finding out when the mystery was revealed. First though, it is important to know what the mystery is and in this particular forum, it is also important to know that it is NOT “Christ in you the hope of glory”.
It is “That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel” Eph 3:6, which of course was revealed to Paul AFTER the close of the Acts period, but some might argue that perhaps Paul was not the first one to receive this revelation because it says in Eph 3:5b “as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit”, indicating that it was known about before but not as clearly as it is now. To which I disagree but again for reasons that are off topic, so I suggest there is a simpler method to determine when the mystery was revealed and that is to discover when the gentiles and Israel become equal, when the Jew stopped being first, at what point was the hope of Israel (the earthly kingdom Acts 1:6), out of view, when was the final scriptural offer made to Israel and rejected by Israel as a nation.
If we can discover this, then we will have a better idea as to when the mystery came into being. Until such a time as the Jews and Gentiles are of the same status and that Israel are not the favored nation anymore but, instead just the same as all other nations in the eyes of God, the mystery had not revealed. To say that the mystery was revealed at a time when Israel still had superiority is senseless, this has to be a basic point of logic,
...mystery revealed all nations equal, mystery still hidden Israel superior.
So was this revelation made known at Pentecost? obviously not as it was revealed to Paul in Ephesians written after Acts, not to mention that Paul was still breathing out threating’s against Christians in Acts 9. But we are concerned with wether the gentiles became equal to Israel at Acts 2 so let’s “get to whom correct”. Who was Peter speaking to at Pentecost and afterwards.
Acts 2:14 - men of Judea…
Acts 2:22 - men of Israel…
Acts 3:12 - men of Israel…
Acts 3:13 - the God of our fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)…
Acts 3:17 – brethren…
Acts 3:22 - the fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)…
Acts 3:25 – You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant…
And in Acts 2:38, 39 he informs them (Israel) that if they repent they will receive the promise of the restoration of the kingdom. Not a gentile in view, but wait a minute doesn’t he say in Acts 2:39 “to all that afar off” and surely that includes gentiles. Well if that was the case then Peter was not aware of it, eight years or so later at Acts 10 Peter is still amazed as were all the other apostles that gentiles were brought into the church. “Cornelius was a devout man, and one that feared God… “ to Peter he was common and unclean and Peter was correct according to the law. “All them that afar off”, are the Jews of the diaspora not gentiles. It was the expectation that all Israel must believe before the kingdom would come in. So no mystery revealed at Acts 2 and thus no equality between Jew and Gentile, but of course we knew that already.
We know also that the gentiles did not come in until Acts 10 therefore there is no need to go through Acts 2–10 pointing out the total Jewishness of the book, other than the fact that it is a good exercise to read it with that view in mind.
So now that gentiles were introduced was the mystery revealed at Acts 10? No, because they still continued teaching to word to Jews only in Acts 11:19. However it would be wrong to say that this was not the beginning of gentiles being brought into the church because it was and we see this happening gradually between now and Acts 13
Acts 13:46 It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
So up to this point the Jew is still first, no mystery revealed yet, no church of the body in view. But does that change from here on in now that Paul has emphatically declared the turn to the gentiles? No, this is just a local turning away, one more branch cut off the olive tree and one grafted in (Rom 11). Why can I say that? Well the very next place Paul goes he goes to the synagogue first, Acts 14:1. The Jew was still first.
Was there equality in Acts 15, the Jerusalem council? No. The Pharisees who believed thought it good to impose circumcision on the gentiles who believed and Paul went to Jerusalem to sort the issue. In the final decision, Acts 15:28 “For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us”... that the gentiles only had to keep four laws… what!!! they had to keep laws? Yes, but the Jews had to keep the whole law (Acts 21:20) and they did that right up to the end of Acts. Paul kept the feasts, always went to the synagogue and took a number of vows. (You may remember Craig’s odd teaching that James went bad and sold Paul down the river, while that was complete rubbish, it did highlight the fact that he just did not understand why the apostles were still keeping the law, so he had to make it fit with his system of theology. I sometimes compare it with the way the theory of evolution retards true science, systems of theology retard true research and honest discussion and dialog).
It was right for them to keep the law, not for righteousness, but because the witness in the book of Acts was solely for Israel in the hope of restoring the kingdom, gentiles were brought in to provoke Israel to emulation (Rom 11). A non-Christian Jew would never listen to a Christian Jew who had forsaken the Law of Moses and the only reason these four laws were put on the gentile Christians was so that they would not be unclean and could fellowship together with Christian Jews. These specific laws are built around the things in the law that made one unclean. So, still no equality in Acts 15, no mystery revealed, no equal footing for the gentiles, one church two classes of people.
I will mention also that as late as Acts 28:20 Paul still considers himself bound for “the hope of Israel” what was the hope of Israel? Any Jew even today will tell you it was the restoration of the kingdom. There are many other examples of the difference between Jews and Gentiles which would take too long to go into in this forum so I will make one more observation. One that dwarfs all the other points I have made, the book of Romans.
It is generally accepted among scholars that Romans was the last book written before Paul’s imprisonment and before Ephesians, which came next and Romans is the book that clearly signifies the superiority of the Jew.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 2:9,10 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 3:1,2 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
To mention a few, but if that is not enough the whole chapter of Romans 11 clearly shows that gentiles were grafted into the olive tree of Israel in the hope that Israel would respond and that all of Israel would be saved. This is the opposite of Eph 3:36... they are mutually exclusive. This section of Romans fills in many holes in our understanding as to what was happening in the book of Acts and without it some things would not make sense, simply saying it’s a parenthesis does not mean we can ignore it. Israel was God’s plan for the salvation of the world (Gen 12:1-3, John 4:22) and at the time when these verses were penned that plan was still in view, the Jew still had superiority, hence, no mystery revealed, no church of the one body in existence.
Shortly after the final offer was made to Israel and they rejected, the mystery was revealed, Israel lost their favored position. Now anyone could preach the gospel, prior to that only Jews had the oracles of God committed unto them and they had to be sent to preach (Rom 10:15), no one could just declare themselves as a preacher and certainly not a gentile. Reading the post Acts epistles (Eph. Col. Phil. Titus, Tim, and Philemon) in the light of the mystery revealed and comparing them with Paul’s Acts period epistles (Rom., Cor., Gal., Thess., Heb.) makes so much more sense, when you consider that they were written to a church comprised of Jewish Christians still keeping the law of Moses with the imminent hope of the kingdom restoration and gentiles who were saved by grace but knew their place in the kingdom, just like the woman of Canaan in Matt 15. Jews who were Gods chosen kingdom of priests who had “a taste of the kingdom to come”, being endowed with power from on high, as promised in the OT (Ezek 36:27 amongst many). The hope of the church of the body is not a physical kingdom but a heavenly calling and the nature of that calling is described in detail in Ephesians.
That’s probably enough rambling from me at the moment; I hope I have at least given you something to think about in the interest of honest and interesting dialog, but if not then that’s OK.
For anyone else interested in examining this topic further I recommend almost anything written by Charles Welch, he has written volumes in great detail on this subject which was the key component of his ministry.
www.charleswelch.net
Cheers
Karl