First Century Church in the Twenty First, “No Thanks”

[Karl Edwards]

Lots of Christians talk about getting back to the first century church, by which they mean somewhere between Pentecost and Pauls imprisonment. That period is perceived to be a time of great excitement when believers were “doing the word”, when revelation was in abundance and signs miracles and wonders were constantly evident in their lives, aka “all nine all the time”. With a belief in most evangelical Pentecostal type churches that believers should do the same things today, the cry of “back to the first century church”, has become a staple mantra and a personal objective for many individuals, however all efforts always lead to abject failure.

There are those who reluctantly accept this, blaming themselves for their inability to live up to the first century standard, others live in hope that someday they will be able to “hear clearly” from God and perform a miracle, but worse off are those who live with the delusion that they are operating “power from on high” and the fact that they have never managed to heal even a headache never seems to deter them. These are those who “hear from God” on a regular basis and instruct people in Gods will from their own imagination, often causing unnecessary hurt, both physically and mentally to the body of Christ.

The present day church will never get “back to the first century church” or “back to Pentecost” and I for one am quite happy about that. Mostly because the Pentecostal era was a part of the Old Testament program concerned with ushering in the kingdom of God on earth. Those who were endowed with the power from on high were the same people who were promised this outpouring in the OT scriptures, see Ezekiel 36:25-27, Isaiah 44:3-5, Isaiah 32:15 and of course Joel 2:28,29, they, the nation of Israel, were the focus of the Acts period. This comes as a surprise to most Christians who believe that Pentecost was the beginning of the church that they belong to, but gentiles in the Acts period were no different to gentiles in the OT, only now they were saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, so as always, they were blessed through Israel; however their status was still inferior to believing Jews, being only a graft into the fatness of the olive tree of Israel. (Rom 11:17,18).

During the Acts period there was no heavenly calling, no “seated in the heavenlies”, no “far above all principalities and powers and might and dominion”, no “joint heirs, no joint body and no joint partakers in the promises”. This came after Israel was set aside at Acts 28:28, taking their place as one of the nations. Romans 11:18 and Ephesians 3:6 ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE, if one is true, the other cannot be, therefore during the Acts period Israel was still under the law and with the law came both blessing and judgments.

Those who stood for the Lord during the Acts were truly blessed, with the power they manifested and the signs, miracles and wonders that they witnessed, but they also knew what they were in for.

Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

This was the Acts period, Peter and John were beaten James and Stephen exemplified the true meaning of witness (martyr), as did most of the apostles later in their lives. This was part and parcel of living for God during the Acts as was the judgement on Ananias and Sapphira for lying to the Holy Spirit, plus the judgment on believers who failed to discern the Lords body becoming sick and in some cases, dying. James 5:15,16 (an Acts period epistle written to believing Jews) shows how sin lead to sickness and 1 John 5:16 shows that there was a sin unto death which, no doubt, some of the Corinthian believers had commited and which there was no point in praying for.

Back to the first century church, no thanks, I am happy to live in the “age of grace”, where God chooses to tie the hand of judgement behind his back and where we are forgiven for Christ's sake.

God bless

[Michael Prahm]

Michael,

Thanks,

I thought Dr.'s qoutes from Ephesians 2 said it best.
Still love working the word. Still get excited as the squirrel in Ice Age over a nut, when I see something new.
Again, thanks, and I count the days in residence, and the people I was with, as some of the best times in my life.

[Michael Kasiak]

Michael Prahm, sir... I love your quotes. Uplifting, exhilarating! Proud to be your brother in Christ.

[Michael Prahm]

That if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thin heart that God God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature.

If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit. if any bowels and mercies.

Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

[Michael Prahm]

This is Ephesians 2:10-22 expanded translations, Corps nights 1981-82 VPW.

[Michael Prahm]

Therefore we are His, God’s possession, due to God’s work with his Son, God’s own creation (His masterpiece), who were created in Christ Jesus, with a specific view to good works, which God prepared beforehand and made ready available to every believer in Christ Jesus, in order that we should, could, and ought to walk in them and regulate our lives accordingly.
Because of this, remember what God did by Jesus Christ when once you Gentiles, before you were born again, were unbelievers of and according to the flesh and you were called circumcision by those who called themselves the so-called circumcision of the flesh made by hands;
That at that time when you were called aliens by those so-called circumcision of the flesh made by hands, you were without a Messiah because the Messiah, Christ, came primarily to and specifically for Israel to be Christ’s Bride, that the blessings of the Bride and Bridegroom might be upon all believers everywhere; and that is why you were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers from the covenants of promise to Israel with no hope in a Messiah and thus no God who could give you hope
But now from this very moment you Gentiles, who formerly were afar off from God and away from the rules governing Israel, you are now identified with Christ, being made next of kin to God, not to Israel, by the blood of the Messiah.
That is to say, he, Jesus Christ, is our peace treaty, reuniting that which has been separated. He in and by one single past action made both Israel and Gentiles one by way of his peace treaty with God and destroyed by utterly laying in total ruin and waste the middle wall of partition, the barrier between Israel and Gentiles, law and no law, circumcision and no circumcision, enmity between Israel and Gentiles.
The emotional enmity between Israel and Gentiles as well as the legal separation, the wall of partition-- and between God and all Israel--veil in the Temple torn top to bottom--Israel can go in, Gentiles can go in--nothing to stop anyone--whosoever will may come to God, for Jesus Christ took away by his death the curse of the law and its dogmatic commandments, in order that God might create out of the two, Israel and Gentiles, one new man, having established a peace treaty with God, between God and man, and man and man.

Expanded, expanded ((Jesus Christ having in his flesh, by his life, death and resurrection, and ascension, annulled the curse, the law, the enmity, ending the law of commandments and its commandments, in order that God might create out of the two, Israel and Gentiles, one new man because of the peace treaty established between God and man, man and man, Jesus Christ himself being the perfect man))

And that he, Jesus Christ, might reconcile from the enmity between God and Israel, and Israel and Gentiles, and restore man to the original spiritual unity God had with man, to both Gentiles and to Israel in one body by means of the cross, having killed the enmity
And having come to make peace available to and for Gentiles, evangelizing those who were far from God, and make peace available to and for Israel, evangelizing those who were chosen of God to have the law,
Because by what Jesus Christ did, both Gentiles and Israel have the privilege of standing before God, being ushered in by Jesus Christ, because of the new birth, directly to the Father.
From now on, you Gentiles and Israel are no longer distant from the household or just right next to it, but you are now citizens along with all other born-again believers, yes, heaven’s holiest, even sons, the household of God.
And the household is continuously being constructed upon the foundation of the prophets of the Old Testament, including John the Baptist, and the Apostles of the Gospel period, and he, Christ Jesus himself, became to all of us the head of the corner, the chief cornerstone.
And in him all the building is harmoniously framed together and grows into the holy temple of the Lord,
Even you who are in him are being built for a habitation of God spiritually.

[Michael Kasiak]

I spent a good part of 20 years putting together Acts and the Epistles. One great lesson I learned is this: What God wanted us to know and understand, believe and walk on, He made plain. Even a fool need not err therein...

[LewEllyn Hallett]

Glimpses into the lives of these men and their daily actions is intriguing, more so to me at this point than word studies et al. However, there are a lot of "if"'s in the post above. We can never know what those books or scrolls were, or if it was a cloak or a case Paul wanted. So I'm thinking you've added it as an interesting verse to consider rather than part of the basis of your belief on this topic. I'm only adding my own comment because I enjoy this kind of thought, inquiry and speculation. But a few years ago when I started to examine my own beliefs, it seemed to me that many scriptures that "could be" or "might be" had been taught as building blocks for doctrine. It's fascinating to add them to the discussion when it's done as you have here, with plenty of "if"s. But they're not a very firm foundation for adamant belief, right? Honestly, just a question so that I understand your point since I've been reaading along here with interest.

[Michael Prahm]

II Timothy 4:13 The cloak I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest , bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.

Cloak may have been a portfolio or carrying case for scrolls. The Aramaic (Syriac) Peshitta text has a word in II Timothy 4:13 that means carrying case used for scrolls. This latte meaning is more appropiate in the context of Pauls request for certain scrolls. These were Paul's last days, and the need to reproduce the existing documents of the gospels and New Testament for future preservation would have been a reason for him to leave a case of scrolls of his epistles and other writings at Troas with Carpus to make copies on fine vellum........
......It is also note to point out that Luke was with him. That he requested Timothy to bring Mark., and if this was the writer of the gospel. If these were in fact, steps taken towards the preservation of these sacred writings at that time, then the canon of the Gospels and New Testament, or much of it, was established at a much earlier date than generally supposed and under the supervision of the holy men of God who had been moved by the Holy Spirit to write those documents. The suppositions of a later date are due to questions that arose in later centuries, Walter Cummins, p. 46,47 Scripture consulting, issue 26, Sept 2003

Hebrews 8:6,7
But now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also He is the Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
For if that the first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

[John Richeson]

"have you received since you believed, all that the Father has promised to give?"

No and I do not have all the answers. I used to think I did.

Seems the older I get the more I now know that I know that I do not know that I know.....know what I mean?

I try to help others with what seems to be a workable solution for thier lives. That gives me joy. There is a lot to digest in this thread. Thanks to all of you who have put your heart out there.

[Michael Prahm]

HAVE YOU RECEIVED SINCE YOU BELIEVED?

Have you received the promise of the Father, manifesting his spirit, rivers of flowing water?

Have you received and spoken in tongues, it is Christ in you, the riches of the mystery/

Some baptize the earthen vessel, yet it is the excellency of the power of God that is the must

To build yourself up, to be a great sign, praying perfectly all of the time.

To be filled with the fullness in the world overflowing, of the spirit, God poured out on the Day of Pentecost not with holding.

Divines secrets uttered, our Heavenly Father praised.

To be able to utter the unutterable groaning interceding for the saints in every way

We hit the mark, and obtain to the truth, and overcome our infirmity, and we have fruit.

We pray in the spirit, and we pray with our understanding, knowing in our hearts we are giving thanks well.

We cry Abba Father because we are always and forever joint heirs with Christ, strengthened with his might, by his spirit in the inner man.

Did he not say for with a stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to his people, causing the weary to rest?

And this is our refreshing, and this is our rest.

Yes, have you received since you believed, all that the Father has promised to give?